00:11:49 Joe Swimmer: Good afternoon and welcome! Thanks for joining us for this conversation on the mysteries around the parish treasurer’s role. EPN is pleased to partner with our friends from Chazin for this conversation (www.chazinandcompany.com/ Please know we recognize that the experiences discussed in this workshop might not represent the breadth of experiences in all churches. However, we hope you garner insights that will spark conversation within your teams and leadership groups. We ask that you post your questions or comments in the CHAT feature here and our panel will try to get to them throughout the session. 00:11:56 Joe Swimmer: We invite you to put your name, parish name, and location in the CHAT for the benefit of our panelists. If your parish is not a member of Episcopal Parish Network, we invite you to join our work. Our 240+ members make programs like this one possible. More about membership can be learned by e-mailing us at info@episcopalparishes.org or https://episcopalparishes.org/epn-members. 00:12:34 Susan Garsoe: Susan Garsoe, Chapel Of Our Saviour, Colorado Springs 00:12:34 Albert Alvarez: Al Alvarez, St Mary’s Episcopal Church, Anchorage, AK 00:12:40 Glenn Mortoro: Glenn Mortoro, Treasurer at St. Annes Parish, Annapolis, MD 00:12:40 Ellen Vadney: Emmanuel Church, Newport, RI 00:12:46 Mark Szen: Mark Szen, St George's, Laguna Hills CA 00:12:47 Betty Capps: Betty Capps, Parish Administrator , Trinity Episcopal Church Fort Worth, TX 00:12:47 Timothy Heuer: Tim Heuer, St. Mark's Evanston IL, sr. warden 00:12:50 Michelle Price: Michelle Price, St. Anna's Episcopal, Antioch, CA 00:12:53 Sandi Rapp: Sandi Rapp, Trinity Church, Moorestown NJ 00:12:56 Lauren C-P: Lauren Good Shepherd Berkeley CA 00:12:57 Jan Vetrhus: Jan Vetrhus, Christ Episcopal, Madison, Indiana 00:12:58 Laurie Garramone: St. John's, Johnstown, NY 00:12:59 James Ayers: James Ayers, St. Luke's Episcopal Church, Asheville, NC 00:12:59 brian murrell: Grace Church, Nyack NY 00:12:59 Kay Trammell: Kay Trammell St. Anne’s Washougal, WA 00:12:59 Robin Zmoda: Robin Zmoda St. Luke's Phillipsburg, NJ 00:13:00 Nancy Dilliplane: Nancy Dilliplane Trinity Episcopal, Buckingham PA 00:13:00 John Ager: John Ager, Christ Church New Brunswick, New Jersey 00:13:08 Susan Beares: Susan Beares, St. Andrew's Glenwood MD 00:13:08 David Kennison: David Kennison 00:13:10 Sudhir Frederick: Sudhir Frederick, St. Luke’s Episcopal, Montclair, NJ 00:13:10 Maria Lantagne: Hi All form Maine 00:13:11 Dawn Blythe: Dawn Blythe, St. Paul's Episcopal, Salem, OR 00:13:13 Tom Trevor: Tom Trevor, Thankful Memorial, Chattanooga, Tn 00:13:16 Margaret Dowding: Margaret Dowding Church of the Nativity and Holy Comforter Baltimore MD 00:13:19 Joe Swimmer: For those who just joined, we're glad you're here. Please post your questions or comments in CHAT feature. Also, if you just joined, please post your name and parish/location in the CHAT! 00:13:26 Nicholas Birger: Nick Birger, Chapel of Our Saviour, Colorado Springs, CO 00:13:30 Peggy Lo: Peggy Lo, St. Alban's Austin 00:13:32 Dana Baer: Dana Baer, St. Paul’s Episcopal, Brunswick, Maine 00:13:35 Hal Lawrence: Hal Lawrence, Treasurer, Emmanuel, Petoskey, MI 00:13:39 Susan Humphreville: Susan Humphreville, Treasurer, All Saints' Church Beverly Hills 00:13:50 Kati Braak: Kati Braak, Episcopal Diocese of Northern California 00:13:50 David Kennison: David Kennison, St George's Church, Schenectady, NY 00:13:52 Donna Jean Kiessling: Donna Jean Kiessling, St. Peter’s Episcopal Church, Smyrna, Delaware 00:13:55 Beverly Patchin: Beverly Patchin, St. John's Episcopal Church, Massena, NY 00:13:55 thomas betor: Tom Betor, All Souls Cathedral, Asheville, NC 00:14:00 Amy Lythgoe: Amy Lythgoe, Rector, St. Luke’s, Denver, CO 00:14:05 Laura Garcia: Laura Garcia, Co-Treasurer, Christ's Episcopal Church, Castle Rock, CO 00:14:12 Marci Reed: Marci Reed, St. George's, Washington DC 00:14:27 Geer Isdale: Geer Isdale, Trinity Church, Newport, RI 00:14:29 Cheryl (Toni) Belhu: Rev. Toni Belhu, St. Gabriel’s and St. Francis Episcopal Churches, Rutherfordton, NC 00:14:36 John Reid: John Reid, St. Paul's Memorial Church, Charlottesville, Virginia 00:14:59 Valerie Brown: Valerie Brown, Parish Administrator, St. Luke's, Denver, CO 00:15:04 Carl Anderson: Carl Anderson, Vestry member All Saints Parish, Beverly Hills, CA 00:15:21 Drew Brislin: Rev. Drew Brislin, Episcopal Church of the Ascension, Montgomery, AL 00:15:33 Lauren Lukason: Rev. Lauren Lukason, Priest-in-Charge, St. Mark’s Foxborough & Trinity Wrentham, MA 00:15:33 Thomas Walsh: Tom Walsh, St Edward & Christ, Joliet, IL 00:15:33 Jessie Ann Owens: Jessie Ann Owens, Treasurer, The Episcopal Church of St. Martin, Davis CA 00:15:50 Catherine Tokarski: Cathy Tokarski, Grace Church, Oak Park IL 00:15:55 Susan Gage: Rev Susan Gage St. Barnabas Valdosta GA 00:16:01 Diane Flayhart: Diane Flayhart, Treasurer, St. Francis Episcopal Parish & Community Center, Timonium, MD 00:16:01 Tom Baxter: Tom Baxter, Treasurer, Episcopal Church of the Resurrection, Roslyn, WA 00:16:24 Vivian Costello: Vivian Costello, Treasurer, Holy Family Episcopal Church, Half Moon Bay, CA 00:16:28 Julia Fowler: Julia Fowler 00:16:31 David Rees: Dave Rees, Treasurer, Christ Church Alexandria, VA 00:16:50 Diane Follet: Diane Follet, Christ Church, Oberlin, OH 00:17:00 Margaret Stewart: Muffet Stewart, Treasurer, St. Dunstan's, Ellsworth, ME 00:17:10 Teresa Mumby: Terry Mumby, Administrator, St Paul's Church, Greenwich, NY 00:17:28 Torie Proctor: Torie - Director of Finance and Administration at St. Columba's Episcopal Church Washington, DC 00:17:41 Sally Ethelston: Sally Ethelston, Deacon. St. Matthew's Parish, Hyattsville, MD 00:17:42 Susan Gage: Marilyn Creavy ST Barnabas Valdosta 00:17:54 Jerry Junker: Jerry Junker, Treasurer, Church of Our Saviour, Cincinnati, Ohio 00:18:09 Sandra Miller Camp: Sandra Miller Camp, Treasurer-St. Gabriel's, Rutherfordton, NC 00:18:11 Ellen Swayne: Ellen Swayne, Treasurer, Old St Andrew’s Episcopal Church, Bloomfield CT 00:18:12 Anne-Marie Blondin: Anne-Marie Blondin St Paul's Episcopal, Delray Beach FL 00:18:48 Leanda Robinson: Hello from St. Gregory's Episcopal in Boca Raton Fl. 00:19:14 JoAnn Hanson: JoAnn Hanson, Treasurer, St. Mary's in Tuxedo NY 00:19:14 Robert Ross: Robert Ross, St Agnes & St Paul's, East Orange, NJ 00:20:44 Thomas Woods: Tom Woods, Treasurer, Trinity Episcopal in Hamilton, OH 00:21:09 Lora O'Haver: Lora O'Haver, Treasurer, Church of the Epiphany; San Carlos, CA 00:21:16 Frank Lee: Frank Lee 00:22:14 Frank Lee: Frank Lee 00:22:22 Phil Parks: Phil Parks, Holy Trinity, West Palm Beach, FL 00:23:17 Frank Lee: Frank Lee Treasurer St. Stephens Episcopal Church Charleston, SC 00:23:51 John Glaze: John Glaze, St. Mary's, Hillsboro, OH 00:24:06 Becky Patton: Becky Patton, Treasurer, St. Peter's Episcopal, Delaware, OH 00:24:06 Rebekka Murray: Rebekka Murray, Saint Ambrose, Claremont, CA. 00:24:38 Jeanne Boyle: I am treasurer but no on vestry or clergy. Does D&O insurance typically include me? 00:25:10 Bernard J Milano: Hello from Trinity, Allendale, NJ and the Diocese of Newark 00:27:04 Judith Celestin-Lynch: Judith Celestin-Lynch - St. Christopher Episcopal Church. Fort Lauderdale, FL (Broward) 00:29:00 Dawn Blythe: There are business Venmo accounts, and for non profits, but the fees are different. 00:29:14 Rebekka Murray: Ok, thank you for the update. 00:29:26 John Reid: We have Venmo set up for our church. 00:29:38 James Wiley: Another option is "Pushpay" 00:30:03 Nancy Dilliplane: We use Vanco 00:30:04 Rebekka Murray: Thanks @James 00:30:08 Herb Burton: Saint Philip’s in the Hills, Tucson, AZ Hello! 00:31:48 Laurie Garramone: Excellent description of a budget! 00:32:13 Albert Alvarez: Since churches are exempt from publicly posting Form 990, what is an ethical way to show our donors that our Vestry is appropriately managing parish assets? 00:33:09 Richard Clarke: Rich Clarke All Saints in Fort Lauderdale, FL 00:34:07 Albert Alvarez: Good answer; thanks. 00:34:20 Sue Hempton: Sue Hempton - St. Pauls in Glen Cove, NY 00:35:10 John Brim: Tom Johnson @ St. John’s Church Fishers Island, NY 00:36:15 JoAnn Hanson: Our Vestry reviews monthly the budget vs actual. As Treasurer, I note significant expenses over budget and revenue surplus/deficits. 00:36:56 Cherryl Holt: Should auditors be from outside the parish? Cherryl Holt, Senior Warden, Grace Episcopal Church, Oak Park, IL 00:37:09 Susan Michelfelder: My understanding is that in the Episcopal Church (which does NOT have a congregational polity) that the congregation receives the budget the vestry has approved but the congregation does not have authority for approving the budget. Yes? No? 00:37:13 Diane Follet: Same here. Vestry reviews financials monthly. 00:38:23 Vicki Escalera: Vicki Escalera, Treasurer, Episcopal Diocese of Rhode Island 00:38:42 Diane Follet: Vestry approves, congregation adopts, right? 00:38:57 Joe Swimmer: This question was asked in Q/A; feel free to respond: Are other parishes having trouble finding a local person to perform an audit? (We are here in Northern California) 00:39:02 Lora O'Haver: Are other parishes having trouble finding a local person to perform an audit? (We are here in Northern Calif.). 00:40:48 Margaret Dowding: Can the Parish Administrator have control of the bank account? Or have access to the bank account? 00:40:55 Joe Swimmer: As a reminder, please post questions and comments in the CHAT feature. The panel will get to them as time permits. 

The recording of this session and the slides will be sent out to everyone who registered. We will also post it to our website. https://episcopalparishes.org/digital-workshop-library/ Thanks again for joining. 00:41:10 Connie Morton-Ewbank: No, the canons give the vestry fiduciary responsibility. 00:41:40 Nancy Dilliplane: @Lora O'Haver In DIOPA, for churches with budgets under 500K an audit (review of books) is often done by a neighboring parish, but even this is getting harder to find. 00:42:03 Lora O'Haver: Thanks, Nancy. 00:42:08 Kyran Pittman: I am the P/T admin for a very small church with a tight budget and no accountants or financial professionals among our parishioners. I do basic bookkeeping with QB online and monthly bank account reconciliations. What are the essential annual accounting services we should be hiring out? 00:42:39 Bernard J Milano: Our diocese has a detailed audit program that an audit committee within a parish can use to conduct the annual audit. There are many small parishes that cannot afford an external audit firm. 00:43:34 Lora O'Haver: Bernard, that's a great place to start. Which diocese are you in? 00:43:45 Aldrich Boss: Aldrich Boss, St. John's Episcopal Church, John's Island, South Carolina 00:44:33 Susan Michelfelder: Auditors are getting scarce as hen’s teeth. They are switching to doing taxes because it makes them way more money for less work. North Carolina 00:44:52 Susan Beares: Maryland does team audits also 00:45:19 Dawn Blythe: We end up setting up a new audit committee each year because finding a company to do it is at least $20k 00:47:12 Timothy Heuer: Is there a library of policies available to churches to use as a starting point? 00:47:48 Betty Capps: I would love to see other peoples policies. 00:48:34 Marci Reed: I discovered fraud at an organization that had just received a clean audit 00:48:55 Bob Stirling: In our diocese we audit each other by having three churches audit each other . With three it is a round robin setup so its not just auditing each other. 00:49:07 Connie Morton-Ewbank: https://www.episcopalchurch.org/finance-office/manual-of-business-methods/ 00:50:11 Susan Michelfelder: Is it a good idea to have your paid bookkeeper be a member of the congregation? 00:50:56 Dawn Blythe: Our Parish Admin is the signer on our bank accounts to pay all the bills and act as controller for our bookkeeper. Senior Warden and Clergy are also signers. Our bookkeeper, me, does all the bank recs and back end stuff, and our treasurer checks and reports finances. So we have a very stable checks and balances with our parish admin as the main bank account user. 00:51:00 Albert Alvarez: Is cash accounting a requirement imposed on Episcopal Churches by Canon Law? 00:52:06 Joe Swimmer: For those who have to leave us early, thanks for joining today. The conversation will continue a bit longer. Please post questions and comments in the CHAT feature. The workshop is being recorded and will be available in the next day. If you registered, you will receive a link to the recording and PowerPoint. You will also find it in our Workshop Library at: https://episcopalparishes.org/digital-workshop-library/ Thanks, again, to our panel for sharing this lovely time and helping us move into summer. We hope you found this a useful conversation. Thanks to our partners at Chazin and Gary from Emmanuel Baltimore for facilitating this important conversation. There are additional digital workshops on raising money, building maintenance, security, finance, and communications coming up in the next month. We hope you will join us as you are available. You can see a list here: www.episcopalparishes.org/upcoming-workshops/ More workshops are added regularly. 00:52:28 Herb Burton: collection plate: same advice for counting 00:53:50 Sandi Rapp: What exactly should a church balance sheet look like? 00:54:50 Richard Clarke: Is the Treasurer usually an "ex officio" member of the Vestry in most parishes - maybe without vote? If not, why not? 00:55:17 Teresa Mumby: Yes, cash accounting is canon Law. 00:55:59 Toby Leavitt: They weren't embarrassed....they didn't want to lose the account and all that income. 00:56:20 Susan Michelfelder: How do you keep the vestry from spending lots of time at the meeting nit picking the financial report? 00:58:06 Albert Alvarez: If cash accounting is required by canon law, how are endowments and other assets accounted for according to GAAP? 00:58:08 Janice Urbanik: I've seen churches struggle to terminate a poor performer when they are a parishioner 00:58:20 Susan Michelfelder: Can the bookkeeper and the treasurer the same person? 00:59:09 Matt Matthews: We are lucky enough to have an excellent treasurer who attends vestry meetings to go over the financial statements and budget monthly. He has a voice on financial issues, but no vote. 00:59:43 Lora O'Haver: Do other parishes use 'fund accounting'? We theoretically did, but when I became treasurer I realized we really didn't do it properly. Is it legitimate to not use fund accounting? 01:00:30 Matt Matthews: I don't recognize "Fund accounting" 01:00:34 Susan Michelfelder: How do you segregate restricted funds from general operating funds? 01:01:04 Richard Clarke: Our parish administrator says that any funds received for a designated purpose - for an outreach activity, (not endowment) can be used for any purpose the Vestry thinks is appropriate.. 01:01:43 Joshua Anderson: Yes, Lora, it is legitimate not to use fund accounting. The Financial Accounting Standards Board requires non-profits to report for the whole organization (not for funds). Fund accounting can be useful for funds "with restrictions". 01:01:50 Herb Burton: A gift acceptance policy is critical! 01:02:01 Robert Ross: Please talk about the need to secure W9's from vendors and contractors who provide services or do work for the church. This facilitates the issuing of 1099 tax forms. 01:02:38 Albert Alvarez: Doesn’t it make sense to establish a floor amount for restricted gifts to help manage accounting challenges? 01:02:54 Connie Morton-Ewbank: Richard Clarke, I don't know about every state, but in some states that is illegal. 01:04:56 Julia Fowler: Thank you 01:06:35 Dawn Blythe: Giving a vendor (who is not an employee) a 1099 is not an illegal practice. To receive a 1099, the vendor must provide the company they're providing service for a W9. 01:06:44 Matt Matthews: At one point in our history we were given a large donation restricted to building a parish hall. For a few years we considered the interest accrued on the money to meet our expenses. Was that legit? 01:07:48 marianne simpson: Can you make copies of your slides available to us? 01:08:46 Richard Clarke: Excellent presentation. Thanks. 01:09:47 Joe Swimmer: Thanks, again, to Jackie and Gary for a terrific session. The workshop was recorded and will be posted along with the PowerPoint to EPN’s website later this week. Those that registered will receive an e-mail with the link and the PowerPoint. 

See you on a future digital workshop. Find out more at info@episcopalparishes.org 01:10:02 Lora O'Haver: THank you so much!! Great presentation. 01:10:15 Dawn Blythe: Thanks so much Jackie and Gary! 01:10:20 Gail Williams: Great presentation, thankyou. 01:10:28 Leanda Robinson: So grateful and thank you. 01:10:30 Susan Gage: Thank you so much 01:10:35 Kati Braak: Thank you! Great presentation!! 01:10:36 Amy Lythgoe: Thank you! Very helpful. 01:10:37 Michelle Price: Excellent webinar. Thank you very much! 01:10:40 Dana Baer: 🙌 01:10:41 Sally Ethelston: Excellent! 01:10:42 Marylou Murray: Thank you very much! 01:10:43 Matt Matthews: Good meeting. Informative 01:10:44 Tom Baxter: Great Information.